(Defined as: to terminate an affiliation, tell them to piss off, or even break up and promise to "stay friends".
The Resolution comittee allowed this resolution on the ballot. Will the membership get a chance to vote?
Will MSEASEIU go up in flames?
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- October 23, 2003 Fascism is recognized to have first been officially developed by Benito Mussolini, who came to power in Italy in 1922. To sum up fascism in one word would be to say "anti-liberalism".
...............Socialism and Democracy. Political doctrines pass; peoples remain. It is to be expected that this century may be that of authority, a century of the "Right," a Fascist century."
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Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Should we Stay or Should we Go?
(Defined as: to terminate an affiliation, tell them to piss off, or even break up and promise to "stay friends".
The Resolution comittee allowed this resolution on the ballot. Will the membership get a chance to vote?
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You wrote - "rumor is that the resolution will simply be squashed and never even get a vote." How can they do that if the resolution cmte has already put it on ballot? Also, couldn't a new resolution be brought from the floor?
ReplyDeleteIf the resolution is found to be illegal under the constitution it can be ruled illegal. The danger with this tack is that it will not solve any problems only cause resentment and support the claims of the side supporting disaffiliation.
ReplyDeleteThe time has come to drop SEIU and return to being a good old fashioned labor union, versus the current political machine for democrats.
ReplyDeleteTom, as a VP candidate, what do you think we should do about SEIU?
What do you think about the inaccurate accounting practices that have been used under Belcher's watch?
Do you support a Procedural Audit of MSEA-SEIU Local 1989 and SEIU HQ?
Do you support the ACORN-SEIU partnership?
The time has come to drop SEIU and return to being a good old fashioned labor union, versus the current political machine for democrats.
ReplyDeleteWe have to have the discussion. The membership should decide after hearing all of the facts, not in anger, not in haste.
Tom
Tom, as a VP candidate, what do you think we should do about SEIU?
I am no longer a VP candidate. Although I received enough support to be encouraging the end result would have been a splitting of our Union. I wanted votes for me, not against someone else.
I am hoping to concentrate my efforts on a bargaining senate resolution. Membership needs to become involved and given the chance to become more involved.
Tom
What do you think about the inaccurate accounting practices that have been used under Belcher's watch?
Are they inaccurate or just a reflection of the "it's good enough" philosophy of Maine?
Do you support a Procedural Audit of MSEA-SEIU Local 1989 and SEIU HQ?
There was an audit that went to a number of courts over fair share and there was no criminal misconduct found. We have methods to enforce the will of the membership, the board of directors and resolutions at convention. We vote on our Pres and VP. We will get what we vote for. At this time a procedural audit is not a question because no one has put in a resolution to have one done.
Do you support the ACORN-SEIU partnership?
So far, yes. They have been involved in criminal and unethical activity, so has "SEIU, and almost any large organazation. Do you know how much good ACORN has done? Compare how much good they have done helping the poor and the disadvantaged? Unless a serious systemic flaw is found, not just a headline grabber I will support the partnership.
Letting truth get in the way has never stopped blogger and it seems this one is no different. To state that UHW-W's former corrupt leadership was investigated because they disagreed with Mr. Stern is bull. They refsed to bargain in good faith with for their members. They stole millions of doillars from the Union treasury and they as officers refused to follow policies adopted at SEIU's Convention. Policies voted on by members.
ReplyDeleteAs far as ACORN is concerned it one more instance of the right wing noise machine attacking anyone who stands up for working people or people of color. Do they attack the Republican party as being the home of a gay, corrupt, adulterous, group because of the actions of few members? Not. Wake up and smell the coffee and stand up these half baked idiots who really just selling ad revenue for Fox.
With respect to your comment which said "There was an audit that went to a number of courts," I agree with that fact. However, do you realize the major differences between a Procedural Audit and the type of audit used by this union/PAC in the past? Please respond at your convenience, because this is a very important issue for both union members and Maine taxpayers alike.
ReplyDeletePlease explain the how you see a procedural audit and what you feel it would show.
ReplyDeleteSo Tom, since you have not answered my simple question, does that mean you don't know what a Procedural Audit is? I will provide you with lots of examples if you will just answer my question.
ReplyDeleteA break, please. Try not to be so pedantic. I answered your question and asked for clarification.
ReplyDeleteSo explain yourself and make your point. Audit, procedural audit, legal audit. Justify your reasoning to demand the audit and don't try to justify it by what you claim it will show.
Since you don't seem to understand the difference between the various levels of an audit, perhaps this will help.
ReplyDeleteThe so-called audit which has been used by your union/PAC does little more than validate the numbers within each row and column add up correctly. Period.
That so-called audit does not complete a detailed review of the accounting procedures and policies used by your union/PAC... and this is a LARGE PROBLEM IN NEED OF REVIEW.
That so-called audit does not complete a detailed review of the billing codes selected and used by the union/PAC staff and officers. This is another LARGE PROBLEM IN NEED OF REVIEW.
That so-called audit does not complete a detailed review of the supporting documents, or the USUAL LACK OF supporting documents, to prove the expense was honest and indeed incurred. This is a HUGE PROBLEM IN NEED OF REVIEW.
That so-called audit does not complete a detailed review of how the billing codes used are related to the “chargeable” versus “non-chargeable” versus “mixed” categories in the determination process of the so-called ‘Fair Share Fee’ for non-union members. This is ANOTHER HUGE PROBLEM IN NEED OF REVIEW.
That covers the largest elements, and a Procedural Audit would indeed review those details. If you’re willing to go into SEIU Local 1989 with me, I will gladly illustrate the fraudulent elements from the past. With a little luck, they can keep better records moving forward… IMO, the members and taxpayers alike deserve it!
Tom, why haven't you posted my reply about the procedural audit?
ReplyDeleteBrothers and sisters,
ReplyDeleteThis national union is a money pit. Are Mainers getting our monies worth ? NO. Are we better off now versus 20 years ago when we were not 'married' to SEIU? NO. We must end this relationship with SEIU. If we stay affiliated to SEIU; this relationship will DESTORY MSEA. There is a lot of hate and discontent toward SEIU with good reasons. And how SEIU gives jobs to former MSEA presidents to keep SEIU sucking money from our pockets.
Let's get RID of SEIU.
We need to dump SEIU, NOW.
-life long msea member from southern Maine.
RR
Tom, please read the newspaper article called "Anti-TABOR forces attract more cash but trail in polls" posted at
ReplyDeletehttp://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=289843&ac=PHnws
The article states, “Citizens United recently received several large donations. The Service Employees International Union gave $100,000, the National Education Association gave $25,000 and the Maine State Employees Association gave $10,000, according to its report."
Why should SEIU HQ and your SEIU Local 1989 be allowed to spend $110,000 Maine tax dollars on this 100% political anti-TABOR campaign.
Although I'm sure the SEIU puppet masters will claim these donations were not tax dollars, since these unions/PAC have NO DETAILED ACCOUNTABILITY and the so-called audit NEVER reviewed the inaccurate/fraudulent accounting practices which have been used for years, I think the members and taxpayers alike deserve to know the truth... which can only be exposed through a Procedural Audit.
What are your thoughts on this $110,000 cash donation? What about all of their other in-kind donations for the anti-TABOR, pro-gay marriage and anti-Excise Tax Cut campaigns?
Tax dollars? This is a false argument that has been used for years to deny Union members the right to participate in the democratic process.
ReplyDeleteUnion political monies come from dues, they do not come from fair share money and that has been settled beyond doubt.
How do I feel about it? Great! If my dues are going to protect what the majority of the membership has shown support for then of course I am for it.
The campaign to prove fair share money as misused failed, the desertification effort failed, and now there is a disaffiliation vote going to convention that I predict will fail.
If you can find legal grounds to ask for a procedural audit, please do so. If you feel that the membership wants a procedural audit gather support over the next year and have it brought to convention for a vote.
Whether our votes agree with your point of view is not the issue, the issue is that you don't seem to understand that we do vote and both nationally and locally those votes do not support you.
In closing, the taxpayers do deserve the truth and the truth is it is my money, my pay, my dues that support the Union not so called "tax dollars".
Tom, the following statement you made has never been proven: "Union political monies come from dues, they do not come from fair share money and that has been settled beyond doubt."
ReplyDeleteHow has it been settlede beyond doubt, especially since the so-called audit and the so-called "fair and impartial arbitration process" NEVER reviewed the fact that SEIU Local 1989 has ZERO detailed accountability to prove expenses were billed in an accurate manner... which they were not!
In addition, since Baldacci and SEIU have partnered on the forced unionism issue for Maine state workers, tax dollars are indeed involved. As for the membership dues, you're right as that is voluntary. It's a shame you don't care enough about your fellow union members to support an end to the fraud and corruption within your union/PAC. Is all of that free pizza and soda you get really worth it?
Tom, how has it "been settled beyond doubt" in your view?
ReplyDeleteCourt battles, more court battles, and more court battles. Fair Share lost. Get over it.
ReplyDelete"I don't like it" is not a rational reason to do anything. 500 members don't like it would qualify.
Get Union members to take action.
Tom, per "Court battles, more court battles, and more court battles. Fair Share lost", what are you talking about? The accounting process used by your buddies at SEIU has NEVER been through a detailed and impartial review process. While I realize you happen to get a lot of extra benefits (e.g., free lunch parties), you and your fellow members are still getting hosed by the puppet masters. Can't you recognize when you're being used?
ReplyDeleteBTW, have you ever truly read the full contract between your union/PAC and the Baldacci Administration? In case you haven't noticed, the so-called "fair and impartial review process" is nothing but a kangaroo court since AAA is involved.
Tom, have you ever read the AAA "rules" which make all of their hearings 100% partial to the union/PAC? This fact would also get revealed if a Procedural Audit is completed on SEIU Local 1989. Will you answer these questions or just continue to pretend you don't know what's really happening at the union/PAC?
My goodness..I must say, a great many of these comments and remarks from Anonymous sound awful familiar. Very much like the same arguments that have been parroted for the past 5 years or so, with no agreement from a single arbitrator, judge, or panel thereof.
ReplyDeleteWhile i'm SURE Anonymous has only the best interests of MSEA membership at heart with his broken record demands for this magic bullet "procedural audit", perhaps this union and its leadership are better off, say, actually taking direction from its own membership?
Really, Anonymous...what are you truly suggesting or offering that will fix or improve anything? Yes, yes, i know...A procedural audit. That will, apparently, fix it all. But a financial process, no matter how thorough, isn't going to have any impact on the regular union member on the job. If you're so concerned, how do you propose to help them?
I agree that the issues here are much more serious than whether or not a procedural audit is warranted. The question posed by Tom's original post is should we stay or should we go? That's a serious question. Clearly, there are a few people on this forum (and others) who believe strongly we should go. My question to them is: OK, how do we build a strong union that puts members first? I know, I know, if we disaffiliate we don't have to pay the $1.8 mil in annual dues to SEIU. But what would we then do with that money? How do we identify and train more leaders and recruit more members so we can become a more powerful grassroots force. Spending all the money on more aggressive representation doesn't do that. If SEIU isn't going to help us organize ourselves into a powerful force, how are we going to do it for ourselves? That is the important question, IMO.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous just raised some very good points, but s/he should also remember fraud is not a legal activity. In addition, since these fraudulent activities involve both a lot of money and SEIU HQ, the members deserve to know the truth when discussing this relationship with SEIU, ACORN and the Far Left Democrats. It's a shame the old fashioned labor unions and democrats have been squashed by the Far Left raging liberal politicians and unions/PACs, but that is certainly what has happened here in Maine... and SEIU seems to be a major problem root of that cancerous network. If completed, a Procedural Audit would prove that point!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the matter Anonymous, no response about the fact that your union/PAC buddies are participating in an illegal activity called fraud? If you don't believe it, are you willing to go in and review the facts/paperwork in person?
ReplyDelete